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Proper English

Page history last edited by Randall Monty 11 years, 10 months ago

04.30.12: Quiz #2

 

Drawing from your experiences completing this past weekend's hybrid work, respond to prompt #1, and either prompt #3 or #4.

 

  1. What are some of the advantages and disadvantages to conducting class discussion in a hybrid environment?

AND

     2. How would you revise the hybrid assignment so that would better address format-related concerns?

OR

     3. Explain what social media you think would be suitable for hybrid class activities.

 

Bonus: If you can, let me know, with specific references, which peers you believe more effectively responded to the hybrid assignment.

 

 

****************************************************************************************

 

Today's Hybrid Assignment will by a multi-modal reading assignment.

 

Phase 1: Individual or in groups.

Listen & Read: "What Does 'Proper English' Mean?"

Listen & Explore: The Speech Accent Archive

 

Phase 2: Individual (3 points)

 Respond to these questions in the comments section below by Friday, April 27, at 11:30 PM.

  • What is the main argument that Grammar Girl is making regarding English language?
  • What are some different Englishes used in the United States? Which ones are you more/less familiar with?
  • How do various English accents within the United States inform this idea?
  • How might this concept pertain to writing in this class?

 

Phase 3: Individual (3 points)

Respond to at least two of your peers' responses before our next class on Monday, April 30

 

Extra Credit: Individual (up to 10 points)

Earn one extra point for every two extra peer responses.

Comments (Show all 96)

Miguel Belman said

at 12:28 pm on Apr 29, 2012


Not really sure what would I call the English that I am the most accustomed to, it is a mix of proper English with most common words that most people use in a daily basis. I personally do not think spanglish could be considered a type of English since it is a partially English mixed with Spanish totally inappropriate language practice, but well accustomed to using and hearing it. Based on my personal experience some of us mix Spanish with English to back words that we cannot recall or do not know in English.

Gina said

at 2:33 pm on Apr 30, 2012

Spanglish is not really considered a type of English. But throughout the years people have managed to make it one, since maybe more than 50% of the el paso population use it...

Miguel Belman said

at 12:34 pm on Apr 29, 2012

Most of us know that there is various accents in different parts of the United States, north south, west coast, east coast etc. In one way or another we still figure a way to communicate and sometimes we still find it hard to do so, but there is English desing to help with these situations. A good example I would say, is of those who work or have worked in call centers that have the opportunity to verbally interact with many people around the nation, telemarketers are trained to speak in the most general proper way for most to understand and also to understand the person on the other end, and these skill can definetely apply to writing as well.

williamnewton said

at 4:51 pm on Apr 29, 2012

I do not think spanglish makes it easier to learn spanish for me as in my everyday actions do not put me in a place to peak with many people who speak spanglish. Even though there are a lot of people in the army who speak spanish my daily interactions with themm are in english. I believe that if you are forced into a situation that forces you to use a different language than the forst one that you have learned than you are more likely to practice it. For example when I was in Germany I did learn some basic German but now that it has been several years since I have been there I do not remember that much of it.

Miguel Belman said

at 5:27 pm on Apr 29, 2012

It is very interesting that you bring up that point of being forced to speak to get around or a job like your case definitely helps learning a new language or improving it. I owe a small landscaping company and there is hole days that I don’t speak to many people just hang around trees and rocks not much I can say to them, so I am super glad now that I have returned to school and have a greater opportunity to practice my English skill. At the same time I am trying to learn some French with a course that I bought maybe some day I will get to practice it with real people, and I’ve thought I maybe should move to France for a couple of years to learn the language better.

williamnewton said

at 4:54 pm on Apr 29, 2012

I agree with you on point number four a reader can not read an accent but I do believe a persons culture gives them different views of things.

TessClark said

at 5:14 pm on Apr 29, 2012

I used to always get 'called out' by the fire fighters and paramedics because the way I would type on the call cards, had an accent. According to EPFD at least. Droppin' the "G" for instance makes that country twang pop a little more, even when readin' stuff ;-)

TessClark said

at 5:16 pm on Apr 29, 2012

However, as Grammar Girl would point out, that's not proper English, huh?

Miguel Belman said

at 5:10 pm on Apr 29, 2012

That sounds like a very funny scenario from one extreme to the other, it reminds me of a friend and I, he is very fluent speaking and writing English as I am with Spanish and often we find our self’s teaching each other pronunciation and new words, and personally that has helped me by much.

Miguel Belman said

at 5:35 pm on Apr 29, 2012

LIKE..

Miguel Belman said

at 5:41 pm on Apr 29, 2012

Also because of the fact that we might not know you by your name, and the picture helps the reader identify the writer.

PatrickMyers said

at 6:20 pm on Apr 29, 2012

Great point about the variety of dialects throughout the US. Not to gang up on you, but why do you think a certain dialect is derived from a specific region? In other words, why would people in California say "THE 10", and yet we say I10?

Rocelyn Moore said

at 11:56 am on Apr 30, 2012

Patrick it is a good thought that dialects are derived from diffrent regions because each region is diffrent. Californians live on I10 (figuratively) many places they have to commute to they take I10 so it is used more so when they talk to each other and say "The 10" its significant. We don't use I10 as much so we make sure people know they need to take I10 freeway.

PatrickMyers said

at 6:22 pm on Apr 29, 2012

How would you define a "netural" accent?

PatrickMyers said

at 6:27 pm on Apr 29, 2012

Regarding your #4, when you say the writer should write in a form as "proper" as possible, do you mean they write what THEY believe is "proper" or what the READER thinks is "proper"?

williamnewton said

at 8:46 pm on Apr 29, 2012

what I mean is that the writer should write in a way as to what proper english is considered. In my opinion when a person writes the use of slang terms should be avoided to reduce confusion. Me being older I am not as familiar as some of the younger members of the class and I am not as up to speed on all of the new slang terms that are out there. I just leaned what LOL was a few years ago when the term has been out for a while, and that smiley face thing thats out just amazes me that some people would spend that much time figuring that out.

Randall Monty said

at 8:59 pm on Apr 29, 2012

Older generations having trouble with the slang of younger generations has probably been around for ever. Can y'all think of instances where using slang would be acceptable in academic discourse?

PatrickMyers said

at 6:34 pm on Apr 29, 2012

In regards to you #3, when you say that no one should feel bad for having an accent, I totally back you up 100%. But that's not the way it is. People do sometime get embarrassed for speaking with a certain accent. I think that goes back to the point Grammar Girl states when "lower class" or "African-American" slated English is "looked down" upon. There is that individual sense that when people hear another persons accent, they are "wrong" in their speaking. P.S. This is not necessarily my thoughts on discriminating against people with accents, I'm simply stating what Grammar Girl said in her podcast.

Randall Monty said

at 8:36 pm on Apr 29, 2012

There's a difference between making someone "feel bad" about their accent and teaching people to know when to employ a certain accent. How would you negotiate that rhetorical concept?

williamnewton said

at 8:40 pm on Apr 29, 2012

For me as a sergeant in the army I have had some soldiers who have had very strong accents and this would hurt them in the promotion board. The soldier would struggle to answer questions in proper english so to over come this I had to take extra time with them and rehearse their answers outloud ensuring that they used to the closest to their ability the book answer verbatum.

James Mendoza said

at 8:27 pm on Apr 29, 2012

agree with Tess, I wouldnt consider El Paso close to a southern accent, since its more of a spanglish voice around here than a southern accent.

James Mendoza said

at 8:31 pm on Apr 29, 2012

agree with your number 4 Patrick, with how peoples writing is how people get their standard english across on paper than they would speak.

williamnewton said

at 8:35 pm on Apr 29, 2012

My boss has a very distinct Boston accent and at first it is amusing but now after working with him for a few years I find it to be very annoying to hear not only from him but other people with the same accent. I think this is due to the fact that I am tired of being his go to person but every time I make a decision I almost always predict his response in my head and it does contain his strong accent. Not to say it is not funny when my soldiers imitate him because they are very good at it.

williamnewton said

at 8:37 pm on Apr 29, 2012

I agree with you on point number three accents are nothing to be ashamed of. Accents do not corrosponde to intelligence. I do feel that they are adaptable

Randall Monty said

at 8:37 pm on Apr 29, 2012

Speaking as a pretentious northerner, "y'all" makes a lot more sense to me than the plural second-person "you."

Randall Monty said

at 8:38 pm on Apr 29, 2012

Isn't every word (English or not) made-up?

williamnewton said

at 8:53 pm on Apr 29, 2012

It has been my experience through my discouse community that a persons accent generally does not change the meaning of what they are saying. For example a strike in New York, Georgia, and Texas may have different accents the meaning is still ten pins knocked down on the first ball. But what I have notice some of the terms in the discourse community are different like the way a person from New York and a person from Georgia would decribe a lane condition.

Randall Monty said

at 8:54 pm on Apr 29, 2012

Cockney English slaughters the stereotype that a British accent makes someone sound smart.

Randall Monty said

at 8:55 pm on Apr 29, 2012

Shorter: context matters.

David Cano said

at 9:31 am on Apr 30, 2012

I agree to with number four but what if they have to read the essay in front of the other four

David Cano said

at 9:36 am on Apr 30, 2012

Adrian i think the most difficult slang or english to understand is boston they have a weird accent and spanglish makes it hard to learn spanish because when you go visit mexico or like Spain they dont know what spanglish is they only know what proper spanish is

Rocelyn Moore said

at 11:38 am on Apr 30, 2012

Eduardo she is telling people that proper english does not really exisit. "Proper" english is what a whole bunch of smart people said was correct. Standard english is what everyone understands once they learn enlisgh rather it be your 1st or 100th language, and I would disagree about the accent thing people do have accents everyones is just diffrent.

Rocelyn Moore said

at 11:44 am on Apr 30, 2012

Adrian to answer that question yes I do think it is a good thing that people are allowed to use there dialect freely in the workplace and at school, but I think there a some situations where standard english should be pushed on people and that would be anytime dealing with someone outside the business such at clients' lawyers etc. and your emails,memos and other written documents should be in standard english as well.

Rocelyn Moore said

at 11:47 am on Apr 30, 2012

David I think "Proper" spanish would go along the same lines as "Proper"english it really does not exisit there is a Standard spanish that everyone understands that knows spanish.

Rocelyn Moore said

at 11:51 am on Apr 30, 2012

Miguel she is arguing that Standard english is the most appropriate for any scenario or occasion due to the fact that this english is what everyone understands, her example is the news everyone that watches it can understand it because it is done in standard english not "proper" english.

James Mendoza said

at 2:14 pm on Apr 30, 2012

I also believe ya'll may not be proper english but in my mind growing up around people saying it would be proper to me but I have been trying to change it to you all while talking professionally to others.

James Mendoza said

at 2:16 pm on Apr 30, 2012

agree with everyone with number 3, no one should be ashame of the accent they have, it just makes it more exciting to meet someone that has a different accent that you can and may learn something new from.

Gina said

at 2:30 pm on Apr 30, 2012

deal :)

Gina said

at 2:32 pm on Apr 30, 2012

i agree tess :)

Favio Melendez said

at 2:43 pm on Apr 30, 2012

Hey Hey Hey ....whats going on? what are we talking about? lol

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